Technology & Community

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Hello and welcome to our Live with Rabbi Lord Sacks. Now, when we first came up with this idea, I absolutely jumped at the opportunity to sit down with Rabbi Sacks because Rabbi Sacks has been someone who has been a personal mentor, a guide, but most importantly, a friend to me over the years. Now, as an introduction, rabbi Lord Sacks is one of the world's leading religious thinkers and a respected public intellectual. He's a great communicator of Judaism and Jewish values and how they can be part of it, and these are his words as he puts it, the conversation of humankind. And he's also someone who's used all the avenues of communication, whether traditional or all new media in order to do this. And last year he was awarded the 2016 Templeton Prize in recognition of your exceptional contribution to affirming life's spiritual dimension.

Rabbi, thank you so, so much for being here today, and especially because it's a particularly festive time of year. We've just observed two major Jewish festivals, Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year, and Yom Kippur, and we're about to celebrate a third, Sukkot. So perhaps before we start, you could share some reflections on what this all means, this time of year.

Rabbi Sacks:

Well, for me, one of the great moments of the Jewish year is Yom Kippur, our Day of Atonement, when we apologise for the wrongs we've done and we ask for forgiveness for others. And I was so struck this year that Mark Zuckerberg and Cheryl Sandberg of Facebook both took that opportunity to come up and publicly say, I'm sorry if we did anything wrong. And I think that's very important because if you live in a forgiving culture, then people can admit they made mistakes. If you live in an unforgiving culture where people just get shamed, then people try above all, never to admit they did wrong, and they hope that they'll not be found out. So I think the more forgiveness there is in the culture, the better for all of us. And then Sukkot, which we're about to start on Wednesday evening, is when we leave our homes and go out into a little shack or a hut with only leaves for a roof.

And Sukkot reminds us once a year, for about a week a year, of our sheer vulnerability. And of course today after those terrible events in Las Vegas, 50 people plus killed and many hundreds injured, just reminds us, we think we're so safe. But every so often we realise how vulnerable we really are. So I think we're all feeling a little bit insecure today, and it's good that you build that into the system because it means that you try and make things safer than they might otherwise be.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

So we're going to talk a lot today about the role of technology and there is definitely an opportunity for people to ask questions. So we're going to talk for a bit, but do ask us questions and I'll make sure I get through as many of them as we can. So what's your experience of technology in general? Are you a technophile or a technophobe?

Rabbi Sacks:

I love technology.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

You're in the right place.

Rabbi Sacks:

It's thrilling. My theory is every revolution in information technology had hugely spiritual consequences. The very first revolution was writing. Well that brought about the birth of civilization. The second revolution was the invention of the alphabet. You could get all the world's knowledge into 20 or 30 characters. And that, if you look at the history books, coincides with the birth of monotheism and the idea that everyone is entitled to be literate and hence everyone has dignity. Then came the codex as opposed to the scroll, books with pages. And the first people to use codices were the Christians. So that was the birth of Christianity. Then came printing, and that brought about the reformation.

So every revolution in information technology has brought about a spiritual and civilizational revolution. We're just in the middle of one now, which is one of the biggest ever. This instant connectability between us and everyone else. Where it's going to lead, I don't know, but it has enormous positive possibilities.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

So you're known as an incredible communicator, both in speaking and writing, and you were one of the first religious leaders to embrace the digital era. So I sort of knew the answer to that last question. I've been following you for a long time. How do you think it's changed the way that you actually communicate and how you connect with people? And do you think how it's changed communication and connecting more generally?

Rabbi Sacks:

Well, I think two things happen. Number one, this modern technology has made us a tiny bit impatient. So if you're going to say something, try and keep it short, which is good. I can do the two-hour lecture, but when you've got to do the three or four minute Facebook video, that's more challenging. And those challenges are good challenges. The other thing is that when you put something up on the web, you never know who's going to see it, which kind of says to you, try and make sure that you don't unintentionally offend anyone. And I think that's also important because this technology can communicate hate and paranoia and all sorts of stuff. So I think we have to be very, very careful to say, let's use the web to communicate love, openness, a willingness to have a conversation with people who don't share your views. You get instant feedback, so you begin to realise all sorts of stuff is bouncing back at you. So I think it gives you focus and it also holds you to a standard, try and say things that will not upset anyone.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

And has that been different for you to get the instant feedback after a sermon or are you used to that?

Rabbi Sacks:

Well, I mean, I used to go to a synagogue where they were fairly lively and they used to occasionally say to me after a sermon, Rabbi, next time, talk about something you know, something about. So the kind of feedback you get on the web is not new for me. It may be new for some religious leaders, but not for me.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

So last week you mentioned Cheryl Sandberg. Well, she actually also posted a video on the UN International Day of Peace. It was the thing that featured you and other world leaders, religious leaders, talking about how to make friends across religions. We've also seen how technology can actually be abused in the name of religion. So what do you think religious leaders and religions could more genuinely do to harness technology for good? So it's kind of building on that last point.

Rabbi Sacks:

I think it becomes, most people at most periods of history have lived closely surrounded by people like them. So we haven't really had to learn to live with difference. Whereas today, any one of our kids knows that just on your smartphone or a tablet, you're going to be bombarded by all sorts of experiences that may be very remote from you. So I think as religious leaders, we have to be able to say to one another, we're all in this together. We're in a very interconnected world, so we have to make space for one another. Now that's quite challenging actually. If you think it's my way or the highway, you're not going to be terribly helpful in the 21st century. And I really think we do have to say, God is setting us this new challenge: can you live with people who are really not like you?

And the funny thing is that when you get to know the people not like you, you discover that they're people like you. So I find this quite liberating, but it is undoubtedly challenging because we have to break with some very bad habits that see our faith as having a monopoly on wisdom and virtue and denigrating people of other faiths. So I think it's not an easy challenge, but it's a very important one.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

So I want to talk about community, something that I know you and we are very passionate about. And you might've seen that Facebook recently changed its mission to be all about giving people the power to build community and also to bring the world closer together. And you recently mentioned in your TED talk, which I have to tell you, is at now 1.2 million and rising, the importance of relationships and the importance of us, the importance of we rather than I. What do you think's the essence of community?

Rabbi Sacks:

Community is where you get to know people who are really different from you. That's the brilliant thing about community. I define community as a place where they know who you are and where they miss you when you are not there. And the thing that I love about that most basic sense of community, take a family, take our grandchildren, I'm a granddad now, all our grandchildren are completely different. And you just begin to realise how enriching difference really is. So I like my local synagogue for instance, because all age groups are there, all income groups are there, and we agree on very little, but we get together to pray together and to celebrate together. So I think community is society with a human face. It's where you come to know individuals as individuals. And of course all these electronic media can hugely enhance community because we may only physically get together once a week perhaps, but we can be in constant touch with one another. So I find that Facebook does actually strengthen those face-to-face communities that are out there.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Now, you often reference the work of sociologist Robert Putnam who wrote about the decline in membership and the loss of community in his book Bowling Alone. One of the questions that we're thinking about at Facebook, is how do we build, help people to build, supportive communities that can strengthen the traditional institutions, especially in a world where we see that some of these institutions are declining?

Rabbi Sacks:

Well, I've got to enter here just a little qualifying note that I don't think you can build community 100% on electronic communications. That's why we have a Sabbath and we say, let's switch off the screens for one day a week and actually meet face-to-face, because certain things happen when face-to-face. You can be much ruder if you are not face-to-face. So you begin to learn civility and you begin to learn to try and be polite and constructive and so on. So I think there's a kind of pendulum here, moments where you physically get together in the same building with people with whom you build bonds of community. And what [inaudible] Putnam found is actually houses of worship are pretty good at that. They're the exceptions to the bowling alone. And then once you've done that, you can make links between your community and other communities all over the world, or you can stay in touch 24/7. So I think Facebook can help communities, but I think we have to sort of start those communities at ground level. And then of course, you really want to make contact between your community and a community halfway across the world. And I've seen it work.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Terrific. Remember, you can send questions in any time, and I will get to them in a minute, but just make sure you post your questions and then I'll get to them. So one of the things about Facebook is we're really trying to help people to make the greatest positive impact. And we also want to lessen the impact that technology and social media can contribute to this whole area of isolation, divisiveness. So we're trying to encourage people to bring their full selves onto Facebook, and I think it's really, you're just picking up on that, but I think it is a lot harder to be mean if you're not anonymous. So if you actually know the someone.

Rabbi Sacks:

Yeah, so once you're willing to put your face to the words, then you sort of sense this feeling of responsibility. Can I communicate with people out there whom I actually can't see face-to-face? And that's a really good discipline. And I've discovered we've just, for instance, been experimenting with a 10 part Facebook series on prayer and spirituality, short little four, five minute videos, words and music. And you discover that what really works is when you speak from the heart, you make yourself a little bit vulnerable. You're not the perfect person. You admit to your doubts and your hesitations and your occasional uncertainties. And I think that's what this technology allows everyone to do. It's so democratic, there's no elite. All of a sudden, anyone can be a star on this. And I think that's just beautiful.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

So I've got a question coming in. Someone's jumping to ask, what do you think about the relationship between religion and science? Because they always seem to be in conflict.

Rabbi Sacks:

Well, here it is in two sentences.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

I guess different communities of people coming together.

Rabbi Sacks:

I think science takes things apart to see how they work. Religion puts things together to see what they mean. So I kind of see science and religion as a bit like the two hemispheres of the brain or a bit like two ears. You need science and religion to hear in full stereo.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Now you've written about the importance of difference and how to celebrate it within society. How can we make sure that we create shared community while still retaining what you've called the dignity of difference?

Rabbi Sacks:

Yeah. Well, I once said the thing about human beings is that if we were completely unalike, we couldn't communicate. But if we were all the same, we'd have nothing to say. So I think human life is built out of that balance between commonalities and differences.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Georgia is saying she agrees with the Rabbi on building community, so good to know. But she's saying technology provides the tool, but it's the human soul that will create it. What do you think about that?

Rabbi Sacks:

That is what this technology is all about. It's about communication. It means that I am holding out a hand, as it were to somebody else and saying, let's meet and let me learn from the fact that you're different from me. I think in the TED Talk, I tried to explain how when I first met Elaine, whom I married, she was so completely unlike me. I was thrilled. I've got to marry this person. She's the most unlike me ever because it's the people who are not like you who force you to grow. So I think the great relationships are actually made when you're willing to be open to somebody who's very much unlike you, and yet you can communicate across that abyss.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Alan is asking, how does the Rabbi explain why America suffers from so many mass shootings incidents?

Rabbi Sacks:

Look, I've got to be blunt here. I'm as English as they come, and I find it really, really hard to understand why there's not more firearms control in the States. I mean, do you really want somebody who's got whatever problems this particular individual had to be able to take out that problem in the form of a gun and shoot 50 people? I mean, every time there's a tragedy like this, the case for gun control gets stronger and stronger.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

And so thinking again about community, how do you build an inclusive community that can reflect our collective values, common humanity that can span cultures, nations, and regions in the world? Or actually there's few examples of global communities.

Rabbi Sacks:

Well, I think there are three easy ways of creating community. Double one is food. I mean, just invite in the neighbourhood and have a meal together, a street party because that is a universal. A second universal, which is really, really beautiful, is music. I remember once sitting with a group of rabbinical students and a group of African bishops halfway up a mountain in Switzerland, and we were sort of doing an interfaith dialogue, which was great, but incredibly boring. We were not really, really meshing, we were sticking to our script. So I said, "Let's take an evening and we'll bring in some food and we will teach the African bishops our songs and they can teach us their songs and we'll tell you our stories and they'll tell." And somehow or other, the food and the music, we just bonded across as big a cultural gap as you can possibly get. The third thing is what I call side by side. When there's a problem in the neighbourhood for the different religious and ethnic groups to get together to beat the drug dealers or to clean up the graffiti or whatever it is. So those are three easy ways that at ground level you can bring people together and once you've brought them together physically, then you can widen the embrace electronically.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Long question now from Alex. Rabbi Sacks wrote in the Faith of the Future that due to the rise of international media being available on the TV in the nineties, it was making people less concerned about the issues in their local communities, but more concerned about the big world issues. Do you not think that the internet and Facebook feeds make this worse, not better?

Rabbi Sacks:

Well, I'm not sure about that. I honestly don't know. All I know is that, for instance, our little local synagogue community, if anything happens and somebody needs help, that gets flagged up on the electronic media and instantly the whole community is there. So if you've got a strong local base, you will strengthen that by electronic media. And then of course you can build up partnerships with communities in other countries, and that becomes very, very bonding. So it really depends how you use it. I do think sometimes we have information overload, but I do think that once you've got a strong local community on the ground, that gets strengthened by the media.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

And I would agree with you. I mean, we see through the different groups that are created, whether it's synagogues, church mosques, football teams. It's a fantastic way of people coming together, sharing. And often it means that you don't miss what you might've not known about that was just happening in your local area. So I think it can work both for the macro big issues, but ultimately every one of the 2 billion people on Facebook, the newsfeed that they have is their own individual one, the one they've chosen with the families, the friends, the religion, whatever it is that they want to follow, so I guess it depends. I guess I've got one on from Hensey. How do you handle the increased antisemitic rhetoric that continues to saturate social media platforms such as Facebook? How does one react and diffuse it, and what responsibility does Facebook have?

Rabbi Sacks:

Well, look, I think the rise in antisemitism is really, really dangerous. And it's dangerous because as I've always said, the hate that begins with Jews never ends with Jews. Jews were hated because they were the most conspicuous non-Christian minority for a thousand years in a Christian Europe today, they're the most striking today in Israel and the most visible non-Muslim country in the world dominated by Islam. So Jews were hated because they were different, but our humanity is based on the fact that each of us is different. So therefore a society that has no room for Jews has no room for humanity. So I think we have to stand together here. Jews, Christians and Muslims fighting the forces of hate that in some countries are targeting Jews in other countries targeting Muslims, and yet other countries are targeting Christians. Our humanity is here on the line and we have to stand together. I do not want anti-Semitism to be seen as a problem that only concerns Jews. All of these hatreds concern all of us as human beings.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Okay, one question from Binia. What does a normal individual do to build a better world, living at home, watching the events, both the set of horrific shootings worldwide and the destruction at the hand of nature? I guess you can sometimes feel so small. How'd you help? What'd you do?

Rabbi Sacks:

The world is changed by individuals reaching out to other individuals. You create one smile that lives a human being from despair, one invitation that rescues somebody from loneliness. I mean, you've begun to change the world. And if you think how isolated individuals like this, gunman in Las Vegas can create this horrendous harm, but every one of us can create in our immediate environment some little pool of light. And when all those pools of light join together, then it makes a difference to the world. So none of us should think we've got to change the world. All we've got to do is change one person's life once, and we've already made the world a better place.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Joyce is asking, inter-religion dialogue. Is it possible?

Rabbi Sacks:

Look, I was chief rabbi in Britain for 22 years. I don't know how many chief rabbis could say among their closest friends were archbishops of Canterbury and Cardinal Archbishops of Westminster and the leaders of all the other faith communities in Britain, all of whom became personal friends of Elaine and myself. The Muslims, the Jains, the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Sikhs, and all the rest of them. We just actually worked at that friendship.

The dialogue bit is a little bit cognitive. I didn't really need everyone to agree with me or even to understand me, just as long as we could be friends. And I think we really worked to those friendships. And I think I'm beginning to see at local levels, individual rabbis working at friendships, as are vicars, as are imams. And I actually think that friendship can hold you together even if doctrine and dogma can drive you apart.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Ari's asking, "How can we prevent cyberbullying in our communities?"

Rabbi Sacks:

That's a tough one. Cyberbullying is really, really scary. Jews have always known, on the Day of Atonement where we're beating our [inaudible] saying, "I have sinned, I have sinned, I have sinned." Most of those sins are sins of speech, because we believe that you can injure somebody by unkind and harsh words almost as you can injure them physically.

So I think cyberbullies really need to be exposed, and to the extent that one can build up the algorithms that detect these things fast and take them down. We should be able to use artificial intelligence to spot a cyberbully and just shut them up.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

A question about politics. Politics has become increasingly divided recently, unless the person is citing Brexit, President Trump, et cetera. What's the danger of this division and how do you create a renewed sense of unity in politics for common good?

Rabbi Sacks:

Here I have to distinguish something, I have to explain something. I've often argued that a nation needs two different things. One is called a social contract, which creates the state. We all have an interest in there being some central body, the government, which defends us from hostilities outside and from breakdown of law on the inside. And we still have that, that's fine. We've got a social contract. The second thing though is the social covenant, which has got nothing to do with power and everything to do with a sense of collective responsibility for the common good. A social contract creates the state, social covenant creates society.

Now we have totally focused on the state and we haven't really focused on society. There was one famous British politician, I'm sure she didn't mean it, but she said, "There's no such thing as society." Well, if there's no such thing as society, then we're all lonely individuals and we are going to feel very miffed if we think that some people have got unfair advantages over us. So we have to rebuild that covenant, which means sharing a strong sense of national identity and a strong sense that we're all in this together.

The great paradox is, a society is strong when it cares for the weak, a society is rich when it cares for the poor, and a society becomes invulnerable when it cares for the vulnerable. I think we need to hear that a lot more often because we are part of a social bond, not just a political state.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

There's a question about, is there a danger in that technology may create virtual communities, which in turn can create loneliness.

Rabbi Sacks:

I think we've got to, once in a while, I wouldn't say necessarily a whole day a week, but that's a discipline we take on ourselves as Jews, but once in a while switch the screen's off. Go out there and meet other people face-to-face, because there's some ... We are social animals. There's Genesis 1, God created the world. He said, "Let there be," and there was and he saw that it was good. The first time the words "is not good" appear are, "It is not good for man to be alone." It's not good for us to sit in a room with no other company but a flickering screen, or even a unflickering screen. Go out there and meet real people once in a while.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Question from Zach. "What in your eyes is the best way to bridge the enormous cultural divides in Israel?"

Rabbi Sacks:

Well, Jews are pretty good at arguing with one another, so that's a tough one. But I do think that when it comes to Israel, you've got a lot of different groups that don't have a story in common. And I think the solution was given a long time ago. Let me explain to people. We have this festival called Passover, Pesach. And we sit around the table, the family and friends, and we tell the story of the exodus from Egypt. And the ritual mentions four different kinds of kids, a wise one, a rebellious one, a simple one, and one who can't even ask. And they all have a different take on this story, but they're all sitting around the same table, telling the same story.

So I think we have to actually work, whether it's Israel or it's Britain or anywhere else, the United States, we have to work on what is the story we share, even if we interpret it a little differently. We haven't been doing enough collective storytelling.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Okay. I love storytelling, and I like the idea of collective storytelling at the heart of community. Question from Samuel, "How do you perceive the fact that today the President of United States does not need the traditional means of communication to issue communiqués and what they can do when he can do it on his mobile phone without any intermediary? Is it dangerous or is it healthy for a more transparent society?" And then the end, they say, Samuel says, "Greetings from Mexico to the most important Jewish thinker today." So hello, Mexico.

Rabbi Sacks:

Well, when Barack Obama became President of the United States, the first thing they did was take away his mobile phone. I'm surprised they haven't done it with his successor, actually.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Someone's saying to you now, "I assume you have a smartphone. What do you love or hate most about it?" Do you have a smartphone, first of all?

Rabbi Sacks:

I have a smartphone, which I absolutely love. I love it. But I particularly like the little voice, in my-

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Siri.

Rabbi Sacks:

It's Siri, yes. I have the most wonderful conversations. There used to be way back, in the prehistoric times, a television series called Yes, Prime Minister, which had a terribly British cabinet secretary, Sir Humphrey, who always managed to avoid answering blunt questions. When he'd think the Prime Minister was about to make a terrific mistake, he'd say, "Courageous minister."

§Well, somebody's programmed my Siri to sound exactly like Sir Humphrey. So I say to Siri, "What do you love? Who do you love?" And it replies, "This is supposed to be about you, not about me." I said, "Siri, tell me, does God exist?" It replied, "Well, it's all a bit of a mystery to me." So somebody with an enormous sense of humour has been programming this Siri, and I just love this character. I'd love to shake its hand one day.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

I think also your team in your office might have something to do with that as well. Question from Paula, "How do you engage a person who refuses to engage without judgement ?"

Rabbi Sacks:

Non-judgmentally, basically. It's very difficult to relate to people who can't see any point of view other than their own. And I just think the more democratic and open communication gets, the more important it is to be able to listen respectfully to voices different from your own. That doesn't mean to say you don't have convictions and very strong moral convictions, but you ought to be able to listen.

I think listening is one of the most profound spiritual arts. I don't think we listen enough. We're all too busy talking and too little listening. So I try and listen to people who strongly disagree. And when they find they're being listened to, they actually get a little less tense and they begin to relax. And after being bombarded by insults for an hour or two, you can occasionally get a word in edgeways and then they open up a little bit. So I would say, listen instead of speak, and eventually you'll find that the person opens up to you because you have opened up to them.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Question from Jaykar "Why is covenant (an ancient theme) so large a theme in your writings?"

Rabbi Sacks:

Because covenant was actually created to do something that's very difficult. In the case of Moses and the Israelites, it was getting 12 tribes together to make one nation. Now I think that's our contemporary problem, isn't it? We're all sorts of little tribes together. And covenant is a way of saying we're all different, we all have different starting points and different convictions. Let's come together to do together what none of us can do alone.

And that's why covenant is terribly important when you have highly diverse populations. Because they say for this purpose of building a society that's the best it can be for all of us, but without any of us giving our power different convictions. Covenant is actually the sort of connection which binds us together without flattening out our diversity.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Gabe's asking, different topic, "What would you tell a BDS supporter about Israel, who appears to open to have a real discussion and perhaps persuasion?"

Rabbi Sacks:

Yeah. Look, I think that when you're trying to make peace in any major conflict, the first requirement of a peacemaker is that he or she must seem to be impartial between the sides. I mean, it's one of those weird things. It's difficult to explain to people. But we have certain problems in Jewish divorce law, where a husband can refuse to grant his wife a religious divorce, and then she may have a civil divorce, but she can't actually remarry. I, as a rabbi, had not only to try and encourage people to get married. I also had to, on occasion, facilitate their getting divorced. I discovered the most powerful thing was not to take sides and very clearly seen to be listening to both sides.

Now, anyone who is a BDS activist is clearly taking one side, which means that the other side gets more and more prickly and defensive and threatened. None of this is going to actually bring peace. I think both sides here need peace. I think Israeli children need peace, a future without fear, but Palestinian children need it every bit as much. I think that taking sides here just makes peace harder to achieve.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

I think that reinforces your point about listening.

Rabbi Sacks:

Yeah.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Question from David. You exemplify a very beautiful, open-minded approach to Judaism. But do you ever feel that the cost of such an open-minded approach is a lack of conviction in specific assumptions of the faith that underpins Orthodox Judaism?

Rabbi Sacks:

Look, I'm an Orthodox Jew. I've never had reason to doubt any of the 13 or 14 principles of faith that actually make up Judaism. I actually think the more well-grounded your convictions are, the more you're able to be open to other people without actually feeling threatened. It's the people who actually have doubts who are prickly and don't want to expose themselves to people with different views. I think the more sincere you are in your beliefs, the more relaxed you are with dealing with other people because you know perfectly well that they can't raise any objection your belief that you haven't already worked through yourself.

No. Actually, the more confident you are in your faith, the more open you can be with others. I think it's the people who really feel threatened by the secular world who put up all these defences. I think the idea you need to hide behind high walls to protect your faith is just exactly the wrong attitude.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Time for a final question. Rabbi, can you please talk and please give us your opinion on the moral challenges of information technology?

Rabbi Sacks:

I think the big challenges are, number one, to try and make sure that the internet is used to spread love, forgiveness, openness, and understanding because there's so much bad stuff out there. The internet has a disinhibition effect, which means you can be rude to people in a way you would never do so in a face-to-face way. That's one moral challenge.

Obviously, another moral challenge is this concept of post-truth. We can do away with truth. That's really, really bad news. Truth is the world we share. We all have our own lies, but truth is what's really out there. The challenge of truthfulness, honesty, and integrity are very real. Then, whether it's fate, circumstance, or God himself has put this technology in our hands. I hear God saying to us, "Use this to make life more beautiful." I still stick with that.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Thank you. We've been through a whole number of different subjects, from how we build community, the role of technology. But we have a bit of a Facebook tradition that you might not know about, which is called 'The Quick Fire Round'. I give you a question. Two options. You just basically answer the first thing that comes to mind. Don't overthink it.

Rabbi Sacks:

Okay.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Tea or coffee?

Rabbi Sacks:

Coffee

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Books or music.

Rabbi Sacks:

Music.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Game of chess or Game of Thrones.

Rabbi Sacks:

Game of chess.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

I think I knew that one in advance. Hillel or Shammai?

Rabbi Sacks:

Hillel, definitely.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

If I'm not for myself. Late nights or early mornings?

Rabbi Sacks:

Early mornings.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Optimist or pessimist?

Rabbi Sacks:

Always an optimist.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Star Trek, Star Wars, or Star Baker?

Rabbi Sacks:

Star Wars.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Arsenal or Spurs?

Rabbi Sacks:

Oh, Arsenal. How dare you ask that question?!

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Half your community, including my family, has just finished with you now. Final question. Hard work or lucky break?

Rabbi Sacks:

Hard work beats lucky break every time.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

I agree with that. I mean, Rabbi Sacks, you've given us the most extraordinary insight into how you think about these. You've taken us... At the heart of everything is the importance of community. I particularly love the thinking around the importance of food, the importance of music, and the-

Rabbi Sacks:

And stories.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Storytelling at scale and standing side by side with one another.

Rabbi Sacks:

Totally.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Making friends, but also about making time just to listen. Make sure we really listen. So much good comes when we do that. I want to thank you for taking the time to come in here today. I wish you an early good yontif-

Rabbi Sacks:

Thank you.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

...for Succot.

Rabbi Sacks:

And if I can wish everyone out there a good new year, a year of sweetness and blessing and health, and, above all, peace.

Nicola Mendelsohn:

Thank you.

Rabbi Sacks:

Thank you.